View Issue Details

IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0002418Infinitode 2[All Projects] Infinitode 2public2024-07-17 15:40
Reporter_liangzai_ Assigned Totherainycat  
PrioritynormalSeveritytweakReproducibilityN/A
Status closedResolutionwon't fix 
Product Version1.9.0 (Season 3) 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0002418: The reward curve for loot frequency is unreasonable.
Description
    These images show the results I obtained by only changing the loot frequency and loot rarity. Let's look at the data for loot rarity at level 100. The loot frequency at level 90 is only 1 times higher than the loot frequency at level 0, but the loot frequency at level 100 is 7 times higher than level 0. I feel this is very unreasonable. Players spend 95% of the game time upgrading loot frequency from level 0 to level 90, but they don't get a return on their investment that matches their effort. Instead, in the last ten levels, they get several times more loot than the previous ninety levels. This will confuse new players. Players who haven't watched tutorial videos don't know how to progress in the game, because the amount of loot they get doesn't change much no matter what technology they upgrade. Players who have watched the tutorials know they need to go such a long way to get high returns, and they may directly lose interest in the game.
    As for the loot rarity, I feel the design is relatively reasonable. My testing showed that when the rarity level is between 60 and 70, the quality of the loot is almost entirely legendary. I can only say that in the face of such an unreasonable loot frequency, the loot rarity can still provide players with a glimmer of hope.
Additional Information

My ideas:

①The loot frequency reward curve should be more gradual and exponential, instead of a sudden large jump at the higher levels.

②Introduce some "Loot Boom" increases in loot at certain frequency levels (25, 50, 75, 95) to provide more tangible progress for players as they upgrade.

③If you feel the modified loot frequency is too powerful, you can appropriately weaken the loot rarity as well.

This would make the loot progression feel more balanced and rewarding throughout the leveling process, rather than heavily backloaded towards the endgame.

TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

_liangzai_

_liangzai_

2024-05-19 10:24

trusted_reporter  

IMG_20240516_004936.png (34,198 bytes)
IMG_20240516_004936.png (34,198 bytes)
Image_1716084148786.png (95,477 bytes)
Image_1716084148786.png (95,477 bytes)
therainycat

therainycat

2024-07-14 19:15

administrator   ~0002515

Well, there's definitely a bug in the loot frequency formula
https://plotly.com/~therainycat/53.embed
I'll check it later, but from what I can see, a reasonable move would be to reduce the loot drop rate at Frequency above 1000% by around 30% and smooth out the curve to increase loot drop rate for Frequency below 1000%.

therainycat

therainycat

2024-07-15 22:07

administrator   ~0002522

Last edited: 2024-07-15 22:08

View 3 revisions

Once again, nice find. I rarely play at such a late stage of the game (usually because I run my saved games) and it is hard to spot such a sudden change in a loot drop rate.

I've collected some extra data.
These are 4 slices with a different average difficulty of portals, endless mode:
https://plotly.com/~therainycat/63/#/

There's a bug in a drop rate calculation formula which is directly related to the average difficulty of portals - just like in your table, the rate starts to grow significantly only at the highest values of LOOT_FREQUENCY research and that's not intended.
For a reference, there's also a line which shows the intended drop rate (1:1 to loot frequency, precisely as stated in the research) and it shows that it "works as expected" only at values of 100% loot frequency and around 1050% loot frequency. Loot drop rate is significantly lower than it should be in this range (600% LDR actually gives 300% of loot) and I'm going to increase it, but it also means that loot drop rate at values above 1050% will be significantly reduced.

By the way, these charts show the amount of loot compared to 100% loot drop rate. They are being multiplied once again with the average difficulty of the map, meaning that difficulty affects the drop rate twice (exponentially). I'll leave the part which multiplies loot drop rate depending on an average difficulty, meaning that higher map difficulty will still increase the drop rate, but LOOT_FREQUENCY itself will become linear and will work exactly as the research states.

In other words - loot drop rate will be increased by up to 2x with LDR values below 1050% but it will also be reduced at LDR values above 1050% (1120% is a maximum achievable value) by up to 4.5x. It will become easier to farm loot and players will get faster to 1050% LDR research (prestige research level around 92/100) but loot will drop up to around 4.5x less frequently on a maxed out endless research tree (LDR research levels around 93-100).

Edit: replaced tildas with "around" because Mantis.

therainycat

therainycat

2024-07-15 22:21

administrator   ~0002523

Forgot to mention:
I've also compared the areas of each chart - considering a linear progression through the loot frequency research (for simplicity), the area should represent the average effect of this research. In practice, players will probably spend more time (per upgrade level) progressing to level 92 of the Loot frequency research so the resulting buff may be even more significant than stated below.

Area of the charts:

  • Baseline (linear growth of loot frequency / the chart I'm going for in 1.9.0): 141220 (100%)
  • 1500 AVG difficulty: 125521 (baseline x0.88)
  • 500 AVG difficulty: 115510 (baseline x0.82)
  • 200 AVG difficulty: 110400 (baseline x0.78)
  • 50 AVG difficulty: 106757 (baseline x0.76)

Since formulas will be adjusted to be closer to the baseline, this will increase the average loot drop rate by up to 31% (1/0.76) at all loot drop rate research levels.

therainycat

therainycat

2024-07-17 15:40

administrator   ~0002525

I've decided to keep the loot as it is. Too much effort, time and risk for a thing which has been there for years already.
Not touching the economics in this game.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2024-05-19 10:24 _liangzai_ New Issue
2024-05-19 10:24 _liangzai_ File Added: IMG_20240516_004936.png
2024-05-19 10:24 _liangzai_ File Added: Image_1716084148786.png
2024-05-20 21:23 therainycat Priority urgent => normal
2024-05-20 21:23 therainycat Severity crash => tweak
2024-05-20 21:23 therainycat Status new => acknowledged
2024-07-14 19:15 therainycat Note Added: 0002515
2024-07-14 19:15 therainycat Assigned To => therainycat
2024-07-14 19:15 therainycat Status acknowledged => confirmed
2024-07-15 22:07 therainycat Note Added: 0002522
2024-07-15 22:08 therainycat Note Edited: 0002522 View Revisions
2024-07-15 22:08 therainycat Note Edited: 0002522 View Revisions
2024-07-15 22:21 therainycat Note Added: 0002523
2024-07-17 15:40 therainycat Note Added: 0002525
2024-07-17 15:40 therainycat Status confirmed => closed
2024-07-17 15:40 therainycat Resolution open => won't fix